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Post by irvred on Jan 31, 2018 10:06:46 GMT -6
Come discuss CMBYN, Lone Ranger, or anything Hammer.
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Post by irvred on Jan 31, 2018 10:07:14 GMT -6
XAM FIX THE TYPO PLEASE
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Post by neader on Jan 31, 2018 10:07:55 GMT -6
I didn't know he was 220 maybe the age gap is a lot more disturbing than I thought
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Post by Xamnam on Jan 31, 2018 10:08:21 GMT -6
For the record, you can. Just edit the first post. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 31, 2018 10:08:42 GMT -6
He was also the Tinklevoss twins in the Social Network.
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Post by irvred on Jan 31, 2018 10:09:24 GMT -6
For the record, you can. Just edit the first post. THANKS |
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Post by cardi bqtrain on Jan 31, 2018 10:13:39 GMT -6
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Post by andrewvb on Jan 31, 2018 10:19:26 GMT -6
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Post by doso on Jan 31, 2018 11:16:02 GMT -6
Every single time I hear this dude's name, I think of baking soda.  |
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Post by llamaoftime on Feb 15, 2018 15:33:43 GMT -6
im moving my call me by your name post to this beautiful thread in an attempt to move the CMBYN discussion here to stop clogging up the movies thread and be able to be a bit more loose with spoilers _______________________________________ honestly im still really blown away by the monologue by the father at the end, quoted below because reading it written out hit me even harder yesterday although michael stuhlbarg's delivery of it is so fantastic "You had a beautiful friendship. Maybe more than a friendship. And I envy you. In my place, most parents would hope the whole thing goes away, to pray that their sons land on their feet. But I am not such a parent. In your place, if there is pain, nurse it. And if there is a flame, don’t snuff it out. Don’t be brutal with it. We rip out so much of ourselves to be cured of things faster, that we go bankrupt by the age of thirty and have less to offer each time we start with someone new. But to make yourself feel nothing so as not to feel anything - what a waste!
Have I spoken out of turn?
Then let me say one more thing. It will clear the air. I may have come close, but I never had what you two had. Something always held me back or stood in the way. How you live your life is your business. Remember, our hearts and our bodies are given to us only once. And before you know it, your heart is worn out, and, as for your body, there comes a point when no one looks at it, much less wants to come near it. Right now there’s sorrow. Pain. Don’t kill it and with it the joy you’ve felt."
I feel like that was a beautiful way to wrap up a movie and then you get hit with that credit sequence that i also thought was incredible and goddamn i mean maybe it is a white liberal fantasy movie and as a white male liberal it therefore struck a chord with me personally more than it would someone who isn't, i can't really say, but i dont really see why that's not ok. its a well directed and very well acted film that I think has its place either way |
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Post by irvred on Feb 15, 2018 16:49:45 GMT -6
I agree with all of that and even all of goodson's post, at least in regard to how the film looks. It is extraordinarily beautiful, artfully done, masterfully acted. Stuhlbarg's monologue and the closing credits scene are the one-two that hit me emotionally and I agree put this film into Best Picture territory.
However, I still personally feel the actual romance is flat. Or rather, it is about one very specific romance that does not connect with me. The way it references 'art' and 'love' and 'sadness' work for me in broad strokes but there is this part of me that feels Elio/Oliver's relationship is inherently hollow. I get why it is easy to declare this relationship as 'white liberal fantasy': there isn't a single POC and the two female teenagers are basically played as pawns.
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Post by ultravisitor on Feb 15, 2018 19:35:46 GMT -6
i mean maybe it is a white liberal fantasy movie and as a white male liberal it therefore struck a chord with me personally more than it would someone who isn't, i can't really say, but i dont really see why that's not ok. My issue with it is that it presents a completely sanitized view of homosexuality, yet at the end manages to pat people on the back for supporting the gays. Very much having your cake and eating it, too. There is basically no gay sex. When Elio and Oliver are in bed and start to remove their clothing, the camera pans to a tree outside the window. Certainly none of the "FUCK DON'T STOP DON'T STOP YOU'LL KILL ME IF YOU STOP" while Elio's getting his butt pounded as it is in the book. There is no complication with regards to the homosexuality, despite the fact that it is set in the 80s. Not even any sort of identity conflict at all on the part of Elio, who is a teenager and spends much of the movie having sex with a girl. Um...okay. There really is no reason for the father's speech at the end, either in the movie or the book, other than to appeal to the audience. (And in that respect, I'm not even sure why they changed the father's response to Elio when Elio asks whether or not his mother knows.) At the end, it feels very much like, "Of course we support the gays...as long as we don't have to bother with any of that yucky gay stuff." I mean, OF COURSE it is easy to celebrate the gays when they're isolated from so much of what it even means to be gay. For crying out loud, Elio has more sex on screen with the girl than he does with Oliver. And then the older gay couple? They're considered a joke by Elio's father. He calls them "ridiculous". Yet, well-received movies like Beach Rats or God's Own Country--movies in which gay characters lead gay lives in which they have gay sex and grapple with gay problems--will remain completely off the radar for so many of the people who proclaim their love for CMBYN. And of course they will. Those movies are gay. |
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Post by llamaoftime on Feb 15, 2018 19:59:24 GMT -6
i mean maybe it is a white liberal fantasy movie and as a white male liberal it therefore struck a chord with me personally more than it would someone who isn't, i can't really say, but i dont really see why that's not ok. My issue with it is that it presents a completely sanitized view of homosexuality, yet at the end manages to pat people on the back for supporting the gays. Very much having your cake and eating it, too. There is basically no gay sex. When Elio and Oliver are in bed and start to remove their clothing, the camera pans to a tree outside the window. Certainly none of the "FUCK DON'T STOP DON'T STOP YOU'LL KILL ME IF YOU STOP" while Elio's getting his butt pounded as it is in the book. There is no complication with regards to the homosexuality, despite the fact that it is set in the 80s. Not even any sort of identity conflict at all on the part of Elio, who is a teenager and spends much of the movie having sex with a girl. Um...okay. There really is no reason for the father's speech at the end, either in the movie or the book, other than to appeal to the audience. (And in that respect, I'm not even sure why they changed the father's response to Elio when Elio asks whether or not his mother knows.) At the end, it feels very much like, "Of course we support the gays...as long as we don't have to bother with any of that yucky gay stuff." I mean, OF COURSE it is easy to celebrate the gays when they're isolated from so much of what it even means to be gay. For crying out loud, Elio has more sex on screen with the girl than he does with Oliver. And then the older gay couple? They're considered a joke by Elio's father. He calls them "ridiculous". Yet, well-received movies like Beach Rats or God's Own Country--movies in which gay characters lead gay lives in which they have gay sex and grapple with gay problems--will remain completely off the radar for so many of the people who proclaim their love for CMBYN. And of course they will. Those movies are gay. I understand what you are saying here but I don't take issue with it as much as you. I think you are getting a bit wrapped up in the potential response to the film- that straight liberal people will watch this movie and pat themselves on the back for supporting the gays by having liked the movie. Which probably has and will happened sure but that doesn't bother me a ton personally I think this film is smaller than what you want it to be. I personally enjoyed that it was just a love story between two people. It wasn't an examination of an identity conflict, it wasn't a portrayal of personal conflicts relating to being gay, but really just the tale of a short fling that happened over a summer at a summer vacation home. And I'm ok with that and I enjoyed it. I don't think every film involving a gay person has to explore deep into what it means to be gay, and the conflicts that come with it. Would having Elio have a bit of personal conflict over having had sex with the girl but being in love with Oliver be interesting? Maybe. But I don't think it would have been necessary to the film. I don't think the film is trying to be an exploration of what it means to be gay and I feel like you want it to be. I haven't seen the other two movies you mentioned (I'm interested though), but there's room for a sort of whimsical tale of a summer romance that happens to be between two men as well as movies that actually portray life as a gay person. Also in regards to the sex scene thing I'd have been down with more sex scenes involving Armie Hammer but like that didn't really bother me and I don't think that's something necessary. I feel like I'm kind of repeating myself and I'm not even sure if I'm making a good point but I just think your criticism here relies on your perception of how people will feel about the film more than the film itself. For me personally, my sexuality is a complicated thing (I haven't talked about it before on here as far as I know and don't know if I want to) and has caused inner and outer conflict in my life itself and I'm down with movies that represent that on the screen but I'm also down with a movie that makes me feel like love can be love without the need for a ton of major conflicts and complications sometimes. Maybe watching the movie on valentine's day was part of that because I see what you are saying about it being sanitized and its sort of safe and it doesn't truly portray what its like to be gay or bi or whatever but I personally really enjoyed the movie not getting to deep into those conflicts and instead just being a story of a summer romance that has an affect on these two |
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Post by goodson on Feb 15, 2018 20:18:10 GMT -6
My issue with it is that it presents a completely sanitized view of homosexuality, yet at the end manages to pat people on the back for supporting the gays. Very much having your cake and eating it, too. There is basically no gay sex. When Elio and Oliver are in bed and start to remove their clothing, the camera pans to a tree outside the window. Certainly none of the "FUCK DON'T STOP DON'T STOP YOU'LL KILL ME IF YOU STOP" while Elio's getting his butt pounded as it is in the book. There is no complication with regards to the homosexuality, despite the fact that it is set in the 80s. Not even any sort of identity conflict at all on the part of Elio, who is a teenager and spends much of the movie having sex with a girl. Um...okay. There really is no reason for the father's speech at the end, either in the movie or the book, other than to appeal to the audience. (And in that respect, I'm not even sure why they changed the father's response to Elio when Elio asks whether or not his mother knows.) At the end, it feels very much like, "Of course we support the gays...as long as we don't have to bother with any of that yucky gay stuff." I mean, OF COURSE it is easy to celebrate the gays when they're isolated from so much of what it even means to be gay. For crying out loud, Elio has more sex on screen with the girl than he does with Oliver. And then the older gay couple? They're considered a joke by Elio's father. He calls them "ridiculous". Yet, well-received movies like Beach Rats or God's Own Country--movies in which gay characters lead gay lives in which they have gay sex and grapple with gay problems--will remain completely off the radar for so many of the people who proclaim their love for CMBYN. And of course they will. Those movies are gay. - how is it celebrating the audience? i didn't really understand this point considering it's a movie and doesn't feel to me self-congratulatory at all - elio's identify conflict and struggle to decide what to do are basically the entire crux of the movie ("is it better to love or die" from the german story, elio writing notes to oliver apologizing and then throwing them away) - the speech by the father is one of the most beautiful things i have ever heard, and i don't understand not comprehending it's complete and utter neccesity to the film elio's father and mother do not treat the older gay couple as a joke at all, they both clearly love and respect them as good friends. again, not sure what you were watching - beach rats and god's own country choose to tell a different story than cmbyn which is great and fine but i think it's slightly problematic that we need to have one type of "gay movie" and cannot simply tell beautiful stories about lgbt communities |
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Post by neader on Feb 15, 2018 20:20:00 GMT -6
Man I read everyone hyping the speech on here and then watched it and was so fucking let down. Did not feel nearly as monumental to me as it did to y'all.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2018 20:41:50 GMT -6
Man I read everyone hyping the speech on here and then watched it and was so fucking let down. Did not feel nearly as monumental to me as it did to y'all. This exactly. It was super sappy and sounded like something I’d hear Robin Williams saying in any cookie cutter motivating role. |
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Post by ultravisitor on Feb 15, 2018 20:51:20 GMT -6
irt lot:
You were wondering why it was a problem for the movie to be white liberal fantasy. I explained why some of us see that as a problem. If you want to see the movie as nothing more than a fairy tale, then that's fine. Representation is a thing that matters for some of us, particularly when such representation of non-straight people is rarely ever present to the degree that it is in CMBYN, let alone celebrated. As such, it matters to us that it's done with some accuracy. If you're fine with the main characters of a purportedly gay movie essentially being two straight guys who fall in love, then okay.
Also, if more gay sex wasn't necessary, then why was so much straight sex necessary?
irt goodson:
Why is the speech from the father one of the most beautiful things you have ever heard?
The father says the couple is ridiculous, and that line is meant for a laugh.
Beach Rats and God's Own Country are both beautiful stories involving the LGBT community. And that's just it. Those characters actually exist as parts of that community. They're not presented in isolation from it.
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Post by alady on Feb 15, 2018 22:57:42 GMT -6
The father's speech was the one point in the film where I felt real emotion but then halfway through it got real cringey. It felt very self serving.
I agree with irvred that the central relationship just did not take off for me. I am also hesitant to call this a gay film when I am not even sure the main characters would identify as gay.
The friends of the family gay couple are so camp there's no way they are not played for laughs. At the very least they're played as a counterpoint to the main relationship.
You know how there's that fake show-within-a-show in Insecure called North and South, and it's kind of a play on how all the acclaimed dramas starring black folks are about slavery? Without discounting what gay people go through, perhaps the most interesting twist in this particular story was that it had a more or less happy ending. There are those stories out there too.
I don't want to go back into the other thread because I'm here now but wokeson could you please talk a little bit about what you meant by passivity and performativity because I don't think I understand what that means in this context.
Armie Hammer is still fine as hell.
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Post by iasm on Mar 7, 2018 20:35:44 GMT -6
Has it been mentioned there’s going to be sequel starring the same actors?
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Post by alady on Jun 19, 2018 9:28:30 GMT -6
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Post by thebosma on Jun 19, 2018 9:29:59 GMT -6
The insta post wasn’t appearing for me at first so I thought it was just a quick verbal reminder of how attractive he is.
But then the photo showed up and WHEW
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Post by alady on Jun 19, 2018 9:38:01 GMT -6
Armie Hammer is still fine as hell. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2018 9:40:46 GMT -6
Oh hey that's my natural pose. I've been told it's not as effective.
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Post by alady on Jun 19, 2018 9:49:17 GMT -6
I'm hoping to see him in Straight White Men over Labor Day but I have no idea how plays work. Does the cast get holidays off? Would I get stuck seeing some bootleg Canal street Hammer?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2018 9:53:24 GMT -6
i did not know Straight White Men was a play and was afraid Armie was a MRA dude for a second
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Post by Tweet on Jun 19, 2018 9:57:07 GMT -6
i did not know Straight White Men was a play and was afraid Armie was a MRA dude for a second It's a very good play too. We should have a theatre thread |
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Post by thebosma on Jun 19, 2018 9:59:43 GMT -6
A theater thread sounds amazing.
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Post by teekoh on Jun 19, 2018 10:20:47 GMT -6
The typo in the hashtag had me very confused. Thought maybe he was from Gibraltar, or something.
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Post by andrewvb on Jun 19, 2018 10:25:38 GMT -6
I'm hoping to see him in Straight White Men over Labor Day but I have no idea how plays work. Does the cast get holidays off? Would I get stuck seeing some bootleg Canal street Hammer? is it a matinee? i seem to remember the main actors sometimes taking matinees off. i didnt really think most broadway shows did monday shows though, so not sure if that's a special week? |
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Post by alady on Jun 19, 2018 10:45:21 GMT -6
There are some matinees but we hadn't really considered them. There's no show that Monday but more just thinking of that weekend so we can go our friend's thing on Long Island too.
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