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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2018 12:47:40 GMT -6
Never change, fucking neader. |
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Post by zircona1 on Jan 29, 2018 12:50:55 GMT -6
Girlfriend and I saw The Disaster Artist yesterday, we both thought it was very entertaining.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2018 12:51:06 GMT -6
 this was really great and nice to see people focus on not just Blackstar but The Next Day, which i feel got swept under the rug after his death and everyone just focused on the opus albums of the 70's and 80's and then went straight to the farewell album. i wasn't familiar with the Next Day very much but after watching this a few weeks ago, I've had Valentine's Day stuck in my head. Loved this whole thing. Got me misty a moment or two. |
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Post by wanny on Jan 29, 2018 12:54:06 GMT -6
I don't know if I would use the word creepy. Definitely awkward and weird though, which took away a lot of the emotion and connection for me.
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Post by concertgoer on Jan 29, 2018 12:54:10 GMT -6
I watched The Last Few years as well a few weeks ago and it was great.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2018 12:54:22 GMT -6
The Next Day only got a week or two of hype (amongst people i know anyway) and then i feel like it didnt get much mention the rest of the year, but i was obsessed with it. it's still got 4 or 5 of his best songs ever and definitely some of his neatest music videos.
highly worth revisiting if you need a good Bowie album to throw on that isn't one of the "classics."
damnit where is Arbee when i need him to back me up on this lol
re: timbo
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Post by monasterymonochrome on Jan 29, 2018 12:57:11 GMT -6
It seems like some of you are coming at this movie from a 2018 perspective. It took place in 1983 in Europe and Elio’s parents were obviously very open and understanding when it came to his sexuality. I didn’t find the film to be creepy at all. But isn't it fair to critique this film's message and implications it leaves with the viewer through a 2018 perspective? There's no reason this relationship should not have been the subject of a film, but I was made uncomfortable by the ultimate positivity the movie attributed to its development. Plus how almost all the reviews I've read applauded the film as a touching depiction of romance, while few note the exploitative nature of their relationship - which remains so no matter what era it's set in. Elio was clearly a teenager. He writes diaristic notes to himself. He is read stories while sitting in his mothers lap. Oliver paints himself as a self-confident, self-assured man. The gap in their ages spans beyond years. I think the movie should instead leave us asking, "Should his parents have been okay with it? Should we be okay with it?" And I can't help but lean no. |
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Post by ultravisitor on Jan 29, 2018 13:05:59 GMT -6
It seems like some of you are coming at this movie from a 2018 perspective. It took place in 1983 in Europe and Elio’s parents were obviously very open and understanding when it came to his sexuality. I didn’t find the film to be creepy at all. Believe it or not, but older men (in their twenties) hitting on and dating high schoolers has been considered creepy and gross and predatory for decades, both in real life and in fiction. Just look at Matthew McConaughey's character in Dazed and Confused. |
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Post by doso on Jan 29, 2018 13:07:41 GMT -6
I haven't seen the movie, so I can't comment on the discussion at hand, but what teenager does this? |
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Post by neader on Jan 29, 2018 13:08:17 GMT -6
It seems like some of you are coming at this movie from a 2018 perspective. It took place in 1983 in Europe and Elio’s parents were obviously very open and understanding when it came to his sexuality. I didn’t find the film to be creepy at all. Believe it or not, but older men (in their twenties) hitting on and dating high schoolers has been considered creepy and gross and predatory for decades, both in real life and in fiction. Just look at Matthew McConaughey's character in Dazed and Confused. That my be true but what a horrible argument. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2018 13:10:00 GMT -6
So it’s not creepy because it takes place in 1983 despite being wittten in 2007 and filmed in 2018? Uh....
Homosexual “grooming” between younger men and older men has been around for centuries. It’s not like some recent cultural shift has made his suddenly creepy whereas before it was pure
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Post by concertgoer on Jan 29, 2018 13:10:47 GMT -6
Jesus Christ there was no grooming in this movie.
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Post by ultravisitor on Jan 29, 2018 13:11:05 GMT -6
If the criticism is that we're looking at this through a 2018 lens, then is it not fair to point out that the same or similar attitudes were held decades earlier, including the one during which the film was set?
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Post by iasm on Jan 29, 2018 13:13:16 GMT -6
I just can't imagine watching that film and your takeaway of that relationship is that he was grooming him.
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Post by monasterymonochrome on Jan 29, 2018 13:13:48 GMT -6
I haven't seen the movie, so I can't comment on the discussion at hand, but what teenager does this? I can't see the part to which you're referring, but if it's the notes/reading, I included those because they are clear moments in which the film reinforces that Elio is still very much a child and acts like one. He is not the adult he aspires to be, and that fact should have been clear to the other parties involved, i.e. Oliver for initiating the relationship and his parents for approving of it. |
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Post by andrewvb on Jan 29, 2018 13:15:05 GMT -6
there's no grooming in the movie though. oliver and elio are very obviously set up as peers from the very start of the film. there's no probing of elio's mind for experiences of child abuse in his past or something that oliver uses against him like your boston globe article author references of his life. oliver isn't even trying to set elio up for some long term psychological torment, the point is it's a summer fling that oliver even resisted until elio pursued him. |
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Post by andrewvb on Jan 29, 2018 13:16:01 GMT -6
I haven't seen the movie, so I can't comment on the discussion at hand, but what teenager does this? I can't see the part to which you're referring, but if it's the notes/reading, I included those because they are clear moments in which the film reinforces that Elio is still very much a child and acts like one. He is not the adult he aspires to be, and that fact should have been clear to the other parties involved, i.e. Oliver for initiating the relationship and his parents for approving of it. that's not what happened in the movie. |
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Post by wanny on Jan 29, 2018 13:16:17 GMT -6
How does everyone feel about grooming?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2018 13:18:40 GMT -6
there's no grooming in the movie though. oliver and elio are very obviously set up as peers from the very start of the film. there's no probing of elio's mind for experiences of child abuse in his past or something that oliver uses against him like your boston globe article author references of his life. oliver isn't even trying to set elio up for some long term psychological torment, the point is it's a summer fling that oliver even resisted until elio pursued him. he purses him after being given a creepy, sexually suggestive back rub, amongst other flirting. It’s not like Elio peruses the other guy with no prompting |
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Post by ultravisitor on Jan 29, 2018 13:25:02 GMT -6
How does everyone feel about grooming? Come to think of it, I started using a new toothbrush this morning. |
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Post by andrewvb on Jan 29, 2018 13:35:20 GMT -6
there's no grooming in the movie though. oliver and elio are very obviously set up as peers from the very start of the film. there's no probing of elio's mind for experiences of child abuse in his past or something that oliver uses against him like your boston globe article author references of his life. oliver isn't even trying to set elio up for some long term psychological torment, the point is it's a summer fling that oliver even resisted until elio pursued him. he purses him after being given a creepy, sexually suggestive back rub, amongst other flirting. It’s not like Elio peruses the other guy with no prompting so you're of the opinion that elio had no interest in oliver until he was given a back rub and coerced into attraction? come on, that's not the movie. |
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Post by irvred on Jan 29, 2018 13:35:31 GMT -6
I don't think Oliver was grooming Elio but I do think it isn't an entirely appropriate relationship. There are scenes that gesture at the two being peers but they literally are not. The movie provides plenty of evidence that Elio is immature and Oliver is an American demigod. I'm in a strange position where I am convinced the emotions of the movie are strong, successful in capturing desire and love - Michael Stuhlberg's monologue is wonderful, well acted, and the final shot of Elio is very moving. But at the same time their age gap comes with an inherent discussion that plenty of people seem okay waving away.
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Post by doso on Jan 29, 2018 13:35:42 GMT -6
I haven't seen the movie, so I can't comment on the discussion at hand, but what teenager does this? I can't see the part to which you're referring, but if it's the notes/reading, I included those because they are clear moments in which the film reinforces that Elio is still very much a child and acts like one. He is not the adult he aspires to be, and that fact should have been clear to the other parties involved, i.e. Oliver for initiating the relationship and his parents for approving of it. Sorry - posting fail. Take 2"He is read stories while sitting in his mothers lap." <- What teenager does this? |
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Post by alady on Jan 29, 2018 13:39:10 GMT -6
I don't think Oliver was grooming Elio but I do think it isn't an entirely appropriate relationship. There are scenes that gesture at the two being peers but they literally are not. The movie provides plenty of evidence that Elio is immature and Oliver is an American demigod. I'm in a strange position where I am convinced the emotions of the movie are strong, successful in capturing desire and love - Michael Stuhlberg's monologue is wonderful, well acted, and the final shot of Elio is very moving. But at the same time their age gap comes with an inherent discussion that plenty of people seem okay waving away. Yeah I think there's a more interesting discussion to be had here. Also oh great I'm going to have to see this movie tonight, aren't I. |
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Post by monasterymonochrome on Jan 29, 2018 13:43:55 GMT -6
there's no grooming in the movie though. oliver and elio are very obviously set up as peers from the very start of the film. there's no probing of elio's mind for experiences of child abuse in his past or something that oliver uses against him like your boston globe article author references of his life. oliver isn't even trying to set elio up for some long term psychological torment, the point is it's a summer fling that oliver even resisted until elio pursued him. he purses him after being given a creepy, sexually suggestive back rub, amongst other flirting. It’s not like Elio peruses the other guy with no prompting What bitteorca said, plus, at the end of the movie, Oliver says himself that he was giving Elio signs by those actions. Ultimately, I guess I just disagree that Oliver and Elio were ever / ought to have been peers. Elio was a teenager at a very different stage in his life than Oliver, which Oliver should have recognized and not acted upon. I appreciate the movie for its acting/score/cinematography, but can't help but be hung up by this snag that then colors the rest of the plot's action.
I'm gonna have to check out of this convo for a bit - have too much to do today to keep checking, but I do appreciate having this discussion. I still feel the way I did did coming in - feeling uncomfortable about the movie - but hearing both sides was constructive. |
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Post by neader on Jan 29, 2018 13:44:05 GMT -6
I don't think Oliver was grooming Elio but I do think it isn't an entirely appropriate relationship. There are scenes that gesture at the two being peers but they literally are not. The movie provides plenty of evidence that Elio is immature and Oliver is an American demigod. I'm in a strange position where I am convinced the emotions of the movie are strong, successful in capturing desire and love - Michael Stuhlberg's monologue is wonderful, well acted, and the final shot of Elio is very moving. But at the same time their age gap comes with an inherent discussion that plenty of people seem okay waving away. Yeah I think there's a more interesting discussion to be had here. Also oh great I'm going to have to see this movie tonight, aren't I. Check your pms in like 4 hours |
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Post by monasterymonochrome on Jan 29, 2018 13:45:14 GMT -6
I don't think Oliver was grooming Elio but I do think it isn't an entirely appropriate relationship. There are scenes that gesture at the two being peers but they literally are not. The movie provides plenty of evidence that Elio is immature and Oliver is an American demigod. I'm in a strange position where I am convinced the emotions of the movie are strong, successful in capturing desire and love - Michael Stuhlberg's monologue is wonderful, well acted, and the final shot of Elio is very moving. But at the same time their age gap comes with an inherent discussion that plenty of people seem okay waving away. This is a more clear version of what I wanted to articulate. |
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Post by andrewvb on Jan 29, 2018 15:22:51 GMT -6
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Post by Tweet on Jan 29, 2018 15:46:54 GMT -6
Unrelated to any of that I showed my girlfriend "The Room" this weekend and I'm pretty sure she hates me now
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Post by irvred on Jan 29, 2018 15:56:19 GMT -6
Yeah Bird what the hell I've been hearing from people that you hit her??
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