Here's Some Money, Go See a Star War

[irvred]

I know #2017 is the Year of Hot Takes but cmon

[irvred]

Oh yeah this Top of Page could apply to literally anything on this board.

[mookie]

Dec 14, 2017 22:21:14 GMT -6 @bitteorca said:

I liked 7 more than this one.

Based off the first viewing, I have to agree with this

[ultravisitor]

Wow. What did I just watch? That is a lot to process. Just...wow.

[thebosma]

I REALLY enjoyed that film. I’m sure there will be some divisions on this. I’m assuming we avoid spoiler talk in this thread?

[dij22]

There were a few very stupid parts of the movie but I really liked it overall. I also liked 7 better though.

[neader]

7 was MUCH better.

SPOILER: Click to show

testing this out to see if it shows up on the recent posts page

[neader]

ok, discussion on the film. since spoilers do not show up unless clicked on here, not even in the recent posts page, i don't think this should be an issue.

SPOILER: Click to show

Literally just got back from the theatre and still don't know how I feel about this film. My first overall complaint which was my only complaint I really had about TFA was that there's just too much comedy. I was really hoping for some type of intense scene where Rey meets Luke, it's built up to be that type of scene and instead he just throws the fucking thing. Shit like that was abundant in this movie and I wasn't a fan.

So going off that I really didn't like pretty much anything about Luke in this movie. Luke was emotional in the past movies, but he was always naive and optimistic. It would make sense for him to be a bit of a crummengon (fuck spelling) but I think this movie they took it too far. He came off as an angsty teenager to me. I feel like it would be more in character for Luke to actually explain what happened earlier on. I wish there was more training with Rey involved but I understand why there wasn't because he didn't trust her until Yoda talked some sense into him. The whole story instead of just being like no go away I want to die. Speaking of...why did he die? Just too tired and exhausted from using the force to "be there" that it killed him? I don't have an issue with that just curious.

Luke trying to kill Kylo on an impulse like that seemed extremely out of character and might be my biggest complaint.

I LOVED LOVED LOVED the Yoda scene. That was brilliant and awesome not because oh yeah Yoda cool! but it had a significant plot point and character development that made a lot of sense. That was genius.

Also loved what they did with Snoke. I'm sure it'll piss off some people but I enjoyed it. I hope we still get to find out the background of Snoke but I doubt we will and I'm okay with that, but I'd prefer if we did because he just seemed so damn powerful.

I also really enjoyed that Rey is a nobody in terms of her parents. It was a great reminder in the last scene as well. Now that the Jedi are extinguished (pretty much) it's great to see that there's still force sensitive people out there, just without the Jedi there's no one to find them and train them.

Ultimately I think the first half just seemed like nothing really happened. They had no idea what to do with Finn, Rose was an awesome character until the end. "It's not about fighting the people you hate but saving the people you love." Like, he was literally sacrificing himself to save everyone, that's exactly what he was doing!

And why didn't the purple hair general after Leia was out tell Poe, hey, the transporters have cloaking devices and we're going to this planet, I have a plan instead of just not saying anything. That whole thing could have been avoided and I don't see why she wouldn't share that information.

By far the worst scene was Leia using the force to fucking fly through space, seriously?

Ugh. Sorry for focusing on the negative, I think overall I did enjoy, like I said I just got home so this isn't really as concise or elaborate of a discussion on my thoughts but ultimately I think that first half was just dreadful.

5
7
4
3
6
8
1
rogue one
2

[llamaoftime]

....Im not sure I loved that

In fact I feel kind of really disappointed right now

[oshoney]

Dec 15, 2017 0:26:18 GMT -6 dij22 said:

There were a few very stupid parts of the movie but I really liked it overall. I also liked 7 better though.

Kinda how I feel - some stupid parts but also a lot of really fucking cool ones. I liked this better than 7 though for a lot of reasons. Not sure where it'd rank overall, gonna see it again this weekend and might have a better idea.

[mookie]

Couple of thoughts relating to what neader wrote:

SPOILER: Click to show

I'm still not convinced that Rey has nobody parents. The only people we've seen communicating through the Force like that were Luke and Leia, and they're obviously brother and sister. I don't know that Rey and Kylo are bro/sis, but I think there's more than just what Kylo said. I think he was saying that to mess with her and get her on his side.

Agreed on the Leia Force scene. I actually found it kind of distracting that they kept her through the movie, since we all knew she died during it. So they're going to have to kill her off with CGI before the next one most likely.

And I thought the Snoke thing was kind of ridiculous, but I give them some credit for killing him off like that. But we really need to find out more about him.

[dij22]

Another thought relating to what Neader wrote:

SPOILER: Click to show

I thought the Luke stuff was completely in character.

Yoda was reluctant to train him in the first place because of his possible dark side and who his father was, so I think it's pretty poignant that even such a powerful Jedi would succumb to his worst instincts and attempt to murder someone in their sleep. Also spending 10 years on an island milking monsters would probably make you go a little bananas.

Also I think this points to a new direction of the force with Rey, where she finds a balance between dark and light and ultimately becomes more powerful than anyone on either side.

[dij22]

Some other thoughts:

SPOILER: Click to show

I think my biggest complaint was the Finn storyline. He really had nothing to do and was just lazily saved via deus ex machina (i.e. Benicio del Toro and his stutter).

I get that the plot had to somehow lead to those stable boys because the final scene and the implications of it were amazing, but I think they should have let Finn sacrifice himself.

That would have been an all-time Star Wars scene and an absolutely terrific end for his character.

Also I thought it was a huge missed opportunity for them to leave Laura Dern behind instead of someone we've known for more than five fucking minutes. If you're going to kill Ackbar off screen in passing, why not just kill him there and give him a real send off?

EDIT: I should add a positive and state that I thought everything about the Rey/Kylo Ren story was perfect.  They are both such excellent actors and I am genuinely excited to see how that storyline is resolved in Episode IX.

[alady]

I can't wait to click on all those spoilers later.

[neader]

Dec 15, 2017 8:21:00 GMT -6 dij22 said:

Another thought relating to what Neader wrote:

SPOILER: Click to show

I thought the Luke stuff was completely in character.

Yoda was reluctant to train him in the first place because of his possible dark side and who his father was, so I think it's pretty poignant that even such a powerful Jedi would succumb to his worst instincts and attempt to murder someone in their sleep. Also spending 10 years on an island milking monsters would probably make you go a little bananas.

Also I think this points to a new direction of the force with Rey, where she finds a balance between dark and light and ultimately becomes more powerful than anyone on either side.

SPOILER: Click to show

I just think it makes more sense to be Obi-Wan 2.0 based off what we saw of him in the OT and the fact that we was trained by both Obi-Wan and Yoda. Yoda was hesitant but ultimately saw there was good in him. I just think it's odd that one of the main heroes of the whole series turns out to be one of the most impulsive and moody Jedi. 

I was talking to my friend about this and apparently Mark Hamill wasn't too pleased with the direction either. Makes sense.


mashable.com/2017/12/13/rian-johnson-mark-hamill-luke-skywalker-last-jedi/#.aN.oz1wekqP

[Kamera]

[Deleted]

I still haven't seen 7, 8 or Rogue. <insert Eeyore meme>

[ultravisitor]

I have many conflicting thoughts about this movie. I thought the storytelling definitely had problems, but I still found it very exciting and I loved seeing Johnson's touch on the series. I want to see it again.

[Deleted]

seeing it tonight and am avoiding spoilers. Personally, I thought Rogue One was better than the Force Awakens.

[ultravisitor]

I thought Rogue One was a pile of hot garbage. This one was definitely better.

[irvred]

Saw it a second time and I stand by my initial opinion that this is leagues ahead of The Force Awakens.

Without spoiling anything, I'll say that Rian Johnson does a better remix-job than JJ Abrams. I do LIKE TFA, but JJ assembled a competent reintroduction to the series out of shit we'd already seen. Everything is a fun winking twist of an original trilogy moment; Johnson's final product is similar but instead of little nods they are full perversions of Star Wars images and tropes. In TFA, I think every planet and alien and action we see has a direct analog in the original trilogy, whereas TLJ shows us at least a handful of new things - this is very basic, but very important and shows Johnson is making efforts to expand the world rather than just play within it.

Now, some scattershot thoughts, with spoilers....

SPOILER: Click to show

I think The Last Jedi does a phenomenal job re-mythologizing The Force. 'Normalizing' isn't quite the word, but Johnson takes that very basic concept of The Force and strips it back to childlike wonder - in a good way. The restrictive structure the prequels portrayed is completely undone, very purposefully - no mention of midichlorians, no mention of rigorous Jedi academies. Oddly enough, I feel like this will upset people even though those same people hated midichlorians.

The way The Force is re-contextualized also makes me love that Leia can use it. It makes sense that she has that innate strength and has some type of grasp on it after living so long. I strongly believe they did the right thing by not killing her off. It would've been cheap and tarnished her memory to let real life tragedy rewrite plot points. Regardless, they'd shot her entire role before her death. This wasn't meant to be a send-off but I think it works as one, emphasizing her strength and heart rather than just saying, "oh well she's gone now."

The 'twist' with Snoke is amazing. An echo of Return of the Jedi AND Empire (Vader originally wants Luke to overthrow the Emperor and join him in ruling the galaxy, basically the same pitch Kylo Ren gives Rey). I cannot overstate how filled with glee I was when they fought the samurai guards in the hyper-modern throne room (holy shit that throne room is some A++ art/set design). It is the best fight scene Star Wars has ever had but also it means a lot to my inner seven-year-old, who thought the red Imperial Royal Guards in ROTJ were so cool and owned their action figure and always thought it was ridiculous how little royal-guarding they did for Palpatine.

LAURA FUCKING DERN is great. Perfect character. Poe, you're cool, but fuck right off. I feel like MRAs are going to be upset at the strong women refusing to take Poe Dameron's shit.

I never questioned how dull-serious Yoda is in the prequels until now. The return of TESB, no-fucks Yoda is truly glorious.

I have very little trouble believing Luke did all of those things. He was always headstrong and Yoda even chastises him for being headstrong - in the originals and this one. 

There is Humor. I laughed at the vast majority of the jokey jokes. I think they fit more naturally than in TFA - for those of you who thought this one is too jokey, please rewatch TFA. Finn actually says, 'Droid, please!' and it is dumb. I am beyond happy they made General Hux comic relief. Fuck that guy. Everybody hate on Hux. The porgs are adorable but superfluous. They are Jar Jar but not ugly or racist or unfunny, so I can't be too mad at their presence. This is no Thor Ragnarok - when The Last Jedi needs to be serious and reverent it pulls it off.

Rey's parents being dead drunks is exactly what I wanted but never hoped they would do. I feel like Johnson was giving the biggest middle finger to JJ. The original trilogy was not about twists. They happened to pull off the Vader one at the end of TESB because they were not building to it. This is a perfect anti-twist. This, as well as the end scene with the little slave boy, really ties into the film's (and I'd argue the series') core message of rebellion and greatness coming from the bottom up. 

My one big complaint - and I worry it will fester as we get passed this initial release - is the Finn plot. He has no real 'arc.' I think everything he does fits his character, but that character is just kind of there for this episode. Rose is a wonderful character but her final lines are very cringey and don't add a whole lot. None of their actions add a whole lot, really. That casino planet is cool and, again, I enjoyed the scenes a la carte but they don't contribute much and their placement in the movie is strange. Benecio Del Toro's character (who I believe is not named a single time, although I'm sure Wookieepedia has something for him already) is pretty bad. Fun, but bad. I appreciate the effort Johnson takes in showing the grey in between the two very-defined Star Wars factions, but this is clumsy.

[neader]

Dec 15, 2017 12:45:09 GMT -6 irvred said:

Saw it a second time and I stand by my initial opinion that this is leagues ahead of The Force Awakens.

Without spoiling anything, I'll say that Rian Johnson does a better remix-job than JJ Abrams. I do LIKE TFA, but JJ assembled a competent reintroduction to the series out of shit we'd already seen. Everything is a fun winking twist of an original trilogy moment; Johnson's final product is similar but instead of little nods they are full perversions of Star Wars images and tropes. In TFA, I think every planet and alien and action we see has a direct analog in the original trilogy, whereas TLJ shows us at least a handful of new things - this is very basic, but very important and shows Johnson is making efforts to expand the world rather than just play within it.

Now, some scattershot thoughts, with spoilers....

SPOILER: Click to show

I think The Last Jedi does a phenomenal job re-mythologizing The Force. 'Normalizing' isn't quite the word, but Johnson takes that very basic concept of The Force and strips it back to childlike wonder - in a good way. The restrictive structure the prequels portrayed is completely undone, very purposefully - no mention of midichlorians, no mention of rigorous Jedi academies. Oddly enough, I feel like this will upset people even though those same people hated midichlorians.

The way The Force is re-contextualized also makes me love that Leia can use it. It makes sense that she has that innate strength and has some type of grasp on it after living so long. I strongly believe they did the right thing by not killing her off. It would've been cheap and tarnished her memory to let real life tragedy rewrite plot points. Regardless, they'd shot her entire role before her death. This wasn't meant to be a send-off but I think it works as one, emphasizing her strength and heart rather than just saying, "oh well she's gone now."

The 'twist' with Snoke is amazing. An echo of Return of the Jedi AND Empire (Vader originally wants Luke to overthrow the Emperor and join him in ruling the galaxy, basically the same pitch Kylo Ren gives Rey). I cannot overstate how filled with glee I was when they fought the samurai guards in the hyper-modern throne room (holy shit that throne room is some A++ art/set design). It is the best fight scene Star Wars has ever had but also it means a lot to my inner seven-year-old, who thought the red Imperial Royal Guards in ROTJ were so cool and owned their action figure and always thought it was ridiculous how little royal-guarding they did for Palpatine.

LAURA FUCKING DERN is great. Perfect character. Poe, you're cool, but fuck right off. I feel like MRAs are going to be upset at the strong women refusing to take Poe Dameron's shit.

I never questioned how dull-serious Yoda is in the prequels until now. The return of TESB, no-fucks Yoda is truly glorious.

I have very little trouble believing Luke did all of those things. He was always headstrong and Yoda even chastises him for being headstrong - in the originals and this one. 

There is Humor. I laughed at the vast majority of the jokey jokes. I think they fit more naturally than in TFA - for those of you who thought this one is too jokey, please rewatch TFA. Finn actually says, 'Droid, please!' and it is dumb. I am beyond happy they made General Hux comic relief. Fuck that guy. Everybody hate on Hux. The porgs are adorable but superfluous. They are Jar Jar but not ugly or racist or unfunny, so I can't be too mad at their presence. This is no Thor Ragnarok - when The Last Jedi needs to be serious and reverent it pulls it off.

Rey's parents being dead drunks is exactly what I wanted but never hoped they would do. I feel like Johnson was giving the biggest middle finger to JJ. The original trilogy was not about twists. They happened to pull off the Vader one at the end of TESB because they were not building to it. This is a perfect anti-twist. This, as well as the end scene with the little slave boy, really ties into the film's (and I'd argue the series') core message of rebellion and greatness coming from the bottom up. 

My one big complaint - and I worry it will fester as we get passed this initial release - is the Finn plot. He has no real 'arc.' I think everything he does fits his character, but that character is just kind of there for this episode. Rose is a wonderful character but her final lines are very cringey and don't add a whole lot. None of their actions add a whole lot, really. That casino planet is cool and, again, I enjoyed the scenes a la carte but they don't contribute much and their placement in the movie is strange. Benecio Del Toro's character (who I believe is not named a single time, although I'm sure Wookieepedia has something for him already) is pretty bad. Fun, but bad. I appreciate the effort Johnson takes in showing the grey in between the two very-defined Star Wars factions, but this is clumsy.

SPOILER: Click to show

I like how we agree on just about everything (except for luke and humor) but walked away feeling differently. Yeah TFA had those moments as well but I don't think they were in as serious spots. Like I said with Luke and the lightsaber as well as him using that plant to tickle Rey, just dumb stuff like that really irritated me, but like I said it irritated me in TFA too, I just thought it was more prevalent here. Absolutely agree with the throne room battle and still can't get over how awesome it was that they just killed Snoke like that

Think I'm going to see it again tomorrow and I expect to walk away with a total different experience.

edit:

SPOILER: Click to show

I really want to watch the OT and then see this again to make sure that I'm not just remembering Luke wrong. But for someone who has historically always been optimistic and seen the good in people it seems ridiculous to me he would do that to ben/kylo

[rango420]

This movie is so much better than force awakens.

Its also 45 minutes too long and maybe the easiest to edit down overlong movie I've ever seen.

We had walk outs in the last 30 minutes as we were approaching 3 hours in the theater.

[alady]

Ugh I don't know if I have a 3 hour movie in me tonight

[mookie]

Dec 15, 2017 16:09:38 GMT -6 alady said:

Ugh I don't know if I have a 3 hour movie in me tonight

Yep. 2.5 hours, plus we had 25 minutes of trailers at ours

[alady]

Ugh

[concertgoer]

So excited!

[irvred]

I believe in you. Just drink through the trailers.

[alady]

Oh I like trailers. I just have a cold/flu thing going on and have been tapping out around 10 all week (our showing starts at 8)

[goodson]

lol i have an 11:30 showing tonight turn up